"I have no nostalgia for the film"
Russia is one of the important themes in David Cronenberg's new drama The Shroud. The heroes mention Soviet secret services, the "doctors' case" and even Russian hackers. Although in fact, this is a chamber-like, mysterious, fantastic and sinister story about a man who made a business selling 3D tracking of deceased relatives of clients. So that you can see at any time from your smartphone what state the deceased is in now. You can read more in the Izvestia review. The main roles in the film were played by Vincent Cassel and Diane Kruger, the film will officially be released in Russia in July. Izvestia talked about the film with David Cronenberg, a living classic and a cult figure of auteur cinema.
"I've met enough twins to know that my heroines aren't twins."
— There has been a lot of talk that you will be making a series for Netflix. And now we see that it has turned into a movie. Or was it a little more complicated?
— I've already read some critical articles accusing me of cramming the entire plot into two episodes and making a movie out of them. Not really, of course. I rethought the plot, rewrote the script. It exists as a variant for the series, but I needed to completely change it so that it turned into a full-meter script. At the same time, much of the series migrated to the film.
The characters remained: Karsh and the two sisters — and what happened between them. But the sequence of the scenes was different, and the story just changed. I don't see much reason for gossip here, it's the same as, for example, adapting a novel to a movie script. In such cases, something always has to be changed. One day I'll show everything to everyone, but I don't think anyone will be interested. In short, it's a different story, but it's recognizable.
A frame from the trailer for the movie "The Shroud"
— What happened to Leia Seydoux? She was supposed to play in the project, but you replaced her.
— She explained everything very clearly. She didn't like that she was French-speaking, Vincent was French-speaking, and yet for some reason the two French actors had to communicate in English in the film. Personally, I was convinced that this moment was quite solvable. According to the film, Vincent's character is not French, so it was possible to come up with something.
Another thing was that Lea was exhausted. She starred in five films in a row and was so tired that she needed at least a year to recover and take a vacation. That's what she did, anyway. She not only refused to star in The Shroud, but also wrapped up several other projects. So I have no complaints. A week after that breakup, I already had Diane Kruger. This is a normal situation for movies, but Leia and I are still great friends, I'm not offended at all.
A frame from the trailer for the movie "The Shroud"
— Tell us about Diane's work? She actually has three roles — two living women and one dead one. Very unusual.
— She had a hard time, yes. When I saw her in Fatih Akin's film "At the Limit," I realized that she was a great actress. And I realized that she could handle these three roles. You might be surprised, but at first I didn't expect the sisters to be twins. They were supposed to be played by similar actresses. But someone told me that, of course, Diane should be played by both, it was definitely not my idea.
I've met enough twins to know that my heroines aren't twins. And I could make it clearer in the film, there were even lines in the dialogues that the sisters were of different ages. In the end, I threw it all away. Diane played what she played and did everything perfectly. She was surprised, though, that the script prescribes everything in such detail, and I don't do any readings or rehearsals. But that's how I always work.
I like to see that an artist brings something of his own to the image, because he has an instinct, his own perception. A professional actor brings a lot to the role, I'm not trying to stop it. If I see something wrong on the court, then we discuss it. But both Diane and Vincent were perfectly on point. And Diane's dead woman was alive.
"Filming was terrible"
— You have a lot of aesthetics in the film in the style of Apple gadgets — you know, all these avatars in phones, design, specific interface. Moreover, it seems that you predicted a lot of this in your early paintings. It seemed like an experiment at the time, but now it's mainstream, doesn't that seem strange to you?
— No, it seems natural to me. At least because I use it all too, I'm used to it, I'm attached. I don't use social media for a number of reasons, but the idea of avatars is very interesting to me. Motion capture, for example, which used to be difficult, can now be done with a regular smartphone. You can create an avatar that moves just like you, and that's reality.
A frame from the trailer for the movie "The Shroud"
— So artificial intelligence doesn't bother you?
— I've been using it in my films for many years now. It is clear that each generation is becoming more powerful and complex. But do you remember the movie "Existence"? Jennifer Jason Leigh had some kind of virus around her lips on set, so we ended up using AI to remove this irritation from the frame and make her skin look normal.
It was very expensive and very difficult back then. It would be a piece of cake today. But technically the process is the same: tracking and replacement. Like Photoshop. Just another intricate tool that I can use. I only welcome all this, however, the future holds a number of surprises. I don't know if you know what SORA technology is, but the interesting thing about it is that the screenwriter becomes just a prompter there. He describes the whole scene in as much detail as possible, with the characters, their clothes, and objects, and then SORA presents an already shot film based on this scenario. The description takes a lot of time, it's difficult, but in the end, AI creates this reality for us.
The AI examines all the available information, offers you actors and just people from the database, you choose — and so the screenwriter becomes a full-fledged and sole creator of the film. This could be the end of the film industry. But digitalization has also changed everything a lot, and I personally was completely in favor, I have no nostalgia for film. Filming was terrible, mounting the film was terrible. The "figure" is much better, the author has more control. It's the same with AI — everyone will be fine, although there will be those who will not be happier about it.
"And so I remembered Stalin."
— Among the many countries mentioned in the film, Russia occupies a special place. There's the doctors' case, the KGB, and Russian hackers. How did all this get into the plot?
Employees of the security service of the KGB of the USSR, 1991
— Because in my film I proceed from the fact that conspiracy theory is a strategy of grief. Look, someone is dying, and it doesn't make any sense. Why did this man die? He just died. But we humans are starting to make sense of everything. This allows the society to rally and stabilize, rituals arise, and all that.
But for me, as an existentialist, the reality is that death has no meaning. There's no point! In fact, human life has no meaning except for life itself. Living life is the meaning of life. It's hard for people to accept that. And if you're a conspiracy theorist, then you create that meaning.
Here, in the movie. A woman died, she just left. Is that all? Was she being experimented on in the hospital? Maybe she found out that she was being used for these experiments? Maybe she wanted to tell everyone about it, and she was killed for it? And if you know that about her, then you know something that no one else knows. Do you understand?
And now you know what's really going on. It gives meaning to your being, a sense of significance. That's how my mind moved. And so I thought of Stalin. All dictators in all dictatorships have used the idea of conspiracy to control people. Nothing has changed now. It gives meaning and gives power over people.
A frame from the trailer for the movie "The Shroud"
— Has such existentialist thinking helped you personally in your own life? Coping with grief, for example? Moreover, in your film, death seems like life, and life is death, isn't it also for a reason, all these opposites?
— Why are there opposites, it's just that death is a part of life, that's how nature works. In winter, living creatures die, and new ones come to replace them. It's hard to think like that. And I have not come to this conclusion now, but as a child. I've been an existentialist since I was about eight years old, you know.
Every child has a moment when he realizes that he will die one day, just like his parents. It's a shock. How is this possible? At such moments, parents usually say that — no, you will not die, we will live in heaven forever together. But is this really the best response to a child? Each parent, of course, has to decide for himself, depending on the cultural context, which determines what to say to the child in such cases.
A frame from the trailer for the movie "The Shroud"
— Obsession, necrophilia, doppelgangers— it all refers to Hitchcock's Vertigo. Do you think this movie can be considered your answer?
— It seems to me that these films are completely different. I'm not used to thinking about other films at all when I'm making my own. I don't even think about my past ones. I see each new film as my debut. Although I understand that I am more confident and experienced than I was when I started working in cinema.
"My relationship with Freud is very emotional"
— You have always been interested in physicality and various body transformations in films. Now the death of the body, almost necrophilia, is in the center of your attention, indeed, there seems to be nowhere else to go. Or not?
— I do not agree that there is necrophilia in the film. It's different here. Remember how in my "Crimes of the Future" there was a mantra that the body is reality. I believe that we are bodies. But thanks to intelligence, the brain, we can think abstractly. It allows us to get out of the body and feel as if we have a spirit or soul separate from the body.
But it seems to me that this is a misconception. It seems to me that we are the body of God. Therefore, what do cinematographers shoot? They're filming a human body. It's not an obsession, it's our real theme. Man is like a body. We shoot dialogues, we see faces in the frame, there are action scenes where bodies die. It's all bodies. And it makes sense, because we are people who reflect on the human condition. This is not strange, on the contrary, it is a very sober approach.
A frame from the trailer for the movie "The Shroud"
— Some people call this picture your most personal film of your career. Do you agree?
— Technically, yes, but all my films are very personal. A film is an expression of what you are, what you have learned about life, what you have understood about people. Even if I'm shooting Dangerous Method, which everyone thinks is about Freud and Jung, it's still a very personal film for me. My relationship with Freud is very emotional, he played a role in my development, I would not have been able to make a movie without this connection.
In the new film, personal motives are more obvious. Yes, there are lines that I use in my life, and that's why it seems that way to everyone. But when you're on set and working with the actors, you're trying to achieve dynamics and choreography rather than thinking about confession.
Directed by David Cronenberg
— When you shot this film, were you inspired by any paintings?
— No, you know, I remember how I used to discuss such things with my cameramen all the time. Do we need to turn to painting, how will we achieve the necessary ratio of light and shadow, do we need to use lighting like Rembrandt's… But in the end, it was a complete waste of time, as were the rehearsals with the actors. I tried it and didn't understand why it was necessary. So the answer is no. Everything is in the movie, we create it right there, we decide every time how it will look. Everything is very simple.
Переведено сервисом «Яндекс Переводчик»
